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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:09 pm
by Chris
Quick designer's note that is porbably common sense to all assembled.

"Trade", in the big wide world, occurs because someone 'can do it cheaper and better'.

IF you produce your main commodity in this game, your opponents, at best, spend TWICE as much to produce it as you do.

If you produce Oil at a "1", the next best producer has to spend "2".

Which means that your base line in the market for your best commodity is always "2". Your better off producing 15 of that commodity and trading it for a mixed bag of 8 other commodities than your are attempting to be self-sufficient, at least from an economic standpoint... but you should be able to get 1-to-1 trades at the start of the game.

Lets look at the oil producer: Lets assume he makes 15 Oil on the first turn. Lets call that $15 as a baseline for his 'internal' economy.

He trades 2 Oil to Red for 2 planes. AS planes cost "2" in Blueland, he doubles his money. Red also makes 4 X on his money. Red would be silly to refuse this trade.

He trades 2 Oil to Yellow for 2 Tanks.
As planes cost 4 in Blueland he makes 4X on his money. Yellow doubles his money. Yellow 'might' refuse this trade.

He trades Green 2 Oil for 2 Food. Both make 3X on their money.
Both should accept this deal... but here's the bottom line. If all of these trades go thru, Blue has spent "6 BlueDollars" to get:
2X2=4
2X3=6
2X4=8 18 Blue dollars!

His GNP goes from 15 to 27 with just those three trades.

Self-sufficiency is NOT the best way to get ahead. :D
Holler if this makes no sense. :D

XXOOCC

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:57 pm
by Darius
The problem is that if the game requires there to be only one left in order to win, then at some point you have to become self-sufficient.

I am not sure money is the best way to put things, but anyway:

He trades 2 Oil to Red for 2 planes. AS planes cost "2" in Blueland, he doubles his money. Red also makes 4 X on his money. Red would be silly to refuse this trade.


This is a one for one trade. The question is why would blue want to do this trade? It takes red 4 to make 1 oil. In this case, red is getting 8 labor unites worth of oil for something that only cost him 2.

On the other hand, 1 oil for 4 planes would be more equal from blues point of view. This would take blue 8 units to make. So it is the same imbalance as it was before.

In order to split the difference it would need to be something like 1 oil for 2 planes. Blue would need to spend 4 labor to make 2 planes. Red would need to spend 4 labor units to make 1 oil. However, in the trade, blue only needs to spend one labor unit to make the oil, so a 4x on his investment. Red needs to used 2 labor unit to get 1 oil (worth 4 labor) so he gets 2 times on his investment. Both come off ahead.

I guess I just revered the numbers you had on who came out ahead, but it seems reasonable. While weapons are important, they are almost worthless without oil to move them so oil ought to be more important than a plane.

He trades 2 Oil to Yellow for 2 Tanks.
As planes cost 4 in Blueland he makes 4X on his money. Yellow doubles his money. Yellow 'might' refuse this trade.


I assume you mean to say that tanks cost 4 in blueland, not planes

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:51 am
by Chris
I think u have the gist regardless. :D And relative costing is a good way to view things. Do not forget, as well, that if your opponents become relatively richer than you are, their odds of beating you increase BUT, "what commodity becomes important" is a function of the game, timing, and the development of the world economy.

...and judging the next 'hot commodity' is one of the keys to winning.

XXOOCC

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:26 pm
by Darius
Victorious warriors win first and then for to war, while defeated warriors go to war first, and then seek to win.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:28 pm
by Chris
Okay, lets crank this puppy up.

Its time for the first phase of turn #1:
All players will allocate Labor Units to the factories in their country that they control. I chose colors at random and Green, (TadK) will start first by placing his units. Green will be first in every phase this turn, and then
Yellow (Popedale) will be first for the next game turn, and so on.

Image

Green: You have 15 Labor Units to place in your 4 factories. How many are you placing in each? (zero is ok, but you should use all 15).

Questions welcome and expected.
XXOOCC

Posting

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:38 am
by tadk
So lets divvy this up evenly and place them this way
6 into Food
3 into Oil
2 into Tank
4 into Planes

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:25 am
by Chris
Ok. So Green will be making 6 Food, 1 Oil, 1 Plane and 1 Tank. Looks like there's going to be a food shortage on turn #1 :D.

Yellow - place your Labor Units.
XXOOCC

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:32 am
by Darius
Maybe you should send a PM to everyone to let them know the game has started?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:17 am
by Chris
I sent a gentle reminder :D

There will be a 5-day lag while I'm at Gen Con next week as well.

XXOOCC

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:53 pm
by Chris
Popedale (Yellow) has placed his units!
oil-6
food-8
tanks-1
planes-0

He will therefore produce:
Sorry for the delay - didn't see any indication it was my placement.
3 Oil
2 Food
1 Tank


World production totals thus far:
8 Food
4 Oil
2 Tanks
1 Plane

Darius (Blue) place your labor units...

XXOOCC

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:07 pm
by Darius
9 Food
4 Oil
2 Plane

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:20 pm
by Chris
He will therefore produce:
4 Oil
3 Food
1 Plane


World production totals thus far:
11 Food (12 are needed to feed all of the Labor Units in the world)
8 Oil (only three are required to run the entire planet's military)
2 Tanks
2 Plane

Kersus! It is Red's turn to place Labor Units, and then I will update the board for the trading phase.

XXOOCC

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:10 pm
by Kersus
Red selects: 8 on Oil, 4 on food, 3 on planes.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:02 pm
by Chris
Okay gang, here we go:
Image

He produces:
2 Oil
2 Food
3 Plane


World production totals:
13 Food (12 are needed to feed all of the Labor Units in the world)
10 Oil (only 6 are required to run the entire planet's military)
2 Tanks
5 Planes

We now begin the trading phase, which will be followed by the move and attack phase and then the eat phase (as in the published rules :)).

TadK (Green) begins the trading phase. He may offer any deal or exchange to any other player he wishes, including agreements not to invade or attack, or promises of future production. Trades can not be reversed and once accepted, take place immediately, with military units appearing at the factory of the same type in the 'buying' country when traded, and commodities (Oil or Food) being added to the stockpile. Futures agreements and treaties, on the other hand, are only as good as those that make them... IOW, you can renig on a deal, or back out of your portion of a deal, without notice.

All I, as your GM need to know, is when two parties agree to a trade, the details must be public. The negotiations involved can be either public or private.

SO, if you trade futures, this turn I would know only, "Green has agreed to give Red 2 Food" (for instance) and then next turn, perhaps, "Red has agreed to give Green 3 Planes" The fact that a deal was cut for futures may remain secret, or may be publicized by the parties, but will NOT be publicized by me.

As it is always simple to publicize an agreement/trade, it is suggested that you deal privately in your proposals, making public only the deal once concluded. I'd use private messages (Popedale can be reached via private mesage on the dragonsfoot forums). You can use public proposals to put pressure on other players.

Please let me know if there are any questions.

The trading phase has no determined length. Each player's "trading phase" only ends when they announce, "I'm done."

PLEASE CHECK THE BOARD FOR ANY ERRORS. I'm not proud of it, but it does happen. Let me know if I screwed something up.

Let trading commence!
Tadk (Green) then
Popedale (Yellow) then
Darius (Blue)
and finally
Kersus (Red)
XXOOCC

PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:03 am
by Darius
negotiations must be intense.